October | 2019 | Programming with Palermo

Jeffrey Palermo 3:00 am on October 28, 2019

Shayne Boyer on the Landscape of Containers and Cloud-Native - Episode 60

Today's guest on the podcast is Shayne Boyer, a Principal Cloud Advocate and .NET Lead at Microsoft! For the last 15 years, he has been developing Microsoft-based technology, mixing in a little Oracle and Android — but truly, .NET is the world he lives in. He has started User Groups for Windows Phone, worked in Government Software, Public Records Systems, created major reservations systems for Cruise Companies, and has even worked for a mouse (AKA Walt Disney World) as a Senior Solutions Architect.

In today's episode, Shayne and Jeffrey are discussing the landscape of Containers and Cloud-Native. Shayne highlights some of the new Windows Containers capabilities, gives his opinion on what he thinks should be the current file format or release candidate, explains what Cloud-Native means (and what is considered Cloud-Native), and speaks about which elements of .NET Core are interesting to him right now.

Topics of Discussion:

[:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes!

[:49] Jeffrey gives a few quick announcements.

[1:12] About today's guest, Shayne Boyer!

[1:32] Jeffrey welcomes Shayne to the show!

[1:42] Shayne speaks about his career journey and how he ended up at Microsoft.

[2:56] Shayne shares what he's been working on these days.

[4:33] There's a lot of talk about building a new application targeting Azure and running it in Containers. But what are the options for getting those out of the data centers?

[6:30] Shayne speaks about some of the new Windows Containers capabilities.

[9:28] Is every single Windows Containers 2GB now? Or if you do a derived container with just a couple of tweaks, is that another 2GB?

[10:51] Some people have been talking about the Container as the new release candidate package format rather than bundling up your application as a NuGet package and putting it into Azure Artifacts. What's Shayne's opinion on what file format or release candidate should be now? And what does he think will be trending towards the future?

[14:04] What does Cloud-Native mean? And what is Shayne doing with it?

[19:45] When you're developing, what can be considered Cloud-Native?

[21:21] Is it correct to say that Cloud-Native is getting away from having any operating system to manage that's in the mix?

[22:58] A word from the Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[23:28] Jeffrey gives some more announcements and lets you know where to get a hold of his book, .NET DevOps for Azure.

[26:22] Which elements of .NET Core are really interesting to Shayne? What is he working on around it?

[30:33] Does Shayne know what he's going to show at Microsoft Ignite 2019?

[31:40] Shayne speaks about going Cloud-Native with remote workers.

[33:10] With being on the other side of the country, is Shayne in a VPN the whole day or is there is something that has surpassed VPN now?

[37:27] Jeffrey and Shayne speak about what the future of Cloud-Native could look like.

[39:18] Shayne gives some recommendations for listeners to follow-up on if they want to learn more about Containers or Cloud-Native.

[41:33] Jeffrey thanks Shayne for joining the show!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

Microsoft Ignite 2019

Party with Palermo - Microsoft Ignite Conference 2019 (Eventbrite)

Special pre-release offer that expires Nov. 2nd: email Jeffrey at Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com and tell him who his very first guest on the podcast was then he'll send you a free e-book copy!

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Pre-order on Amazon here!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events!

Jeffrey's .NET DevOps Bootcamp (Oct. 28-30th, in Lakeway, TX)

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

Shayne Boyer's LinkedIn

Shayne Boyer's Twitter

Shayne Boyer's Website

.Net Conf 2019

The Cloud Native Show on Channel 9
The Azure DevOps Podcast: "Glenn Condron on New Capabilities in .NET - Episode 58"

Windows Containers
WCF

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Download this episode (MP3, 42:35, 40.9 MB)

Watch this episode on YouTube

This episode on the AI DevOps Podcast site

Jeffrey Palermo 3:00 am on October 21, 2019

Daniel Jacobson on DevOps for Desktop Applications - Episode 59

Today's guest is Daniel Jacobson, a Program Management Lead on the Visual Studio team focused on empowering Windows Developers. Daniel was one of the speakers at the .NET Conf 2019 and will also be at the 2019 Microsoft Ignite conference! Daniel joined Microsoft about 5 years ago as a Program Manager. And now, as a Senior PM on the Visual Studio team, Daniel's focus is on the biggest challenge that developers are facing anywhere in their development. His team empowers literally millions of developers building applications for Windows devices. All that they do is centered around customers and their desires.

In this episode, Daniel and Jeffrey speak about DevOps for desktop applications. Daniel shares his vision for empowering all Windows application developers to seamlessly and incrementally modernize their existing applications through the work that he and his team is doing. Daniel largely focuses on the Visual Studio App Center in this episode, going into detail about each and every step you need to know about when integrating it, and provides additional resources at the end of the episode to further your learning. Tune in!

Topics of Discussion:

[:39] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes!

[:49] Jeffrey gives some announcements and lets you know where to get a hold of his book, .NET DevOps for Azure.

[3:27] About today's guest, Daniel Jacobson!

[3:53] Jeffrey welcomes Daniel to the show!

[4:04] Daniel speaks about his journey in the space and how he ended up where he is today.

[5:54] What is a client application? What makes them different?

[9:52] What are the choices available for those looking to run a native Windows application on the Microsoft platform?

[13:32] With WinForms, WPF, and .NET Core 3.0 coming out, what things can we not yet do if we're trying to go to .NET Core 3.0? What should people watch out for?

[15:55] Daniel explains all we need to know about Visual Studio App Center!

[17:30] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[17:55] If somebody is upgrading an older WinForms' app into .NET Core, would they track their work on Azure Boards or does App Center provide work item tracking?

[18:58] Does the App Center integrate with existing source control? And following that, does the App Center support an automated build process?

[20:01] After the build and you've got a numbered release candidate package of some sort, what should the developer do?

[23:03] Is this all ready to go today for developers to use?

[23:25] Daniel explains the next step in the process once you have the package ready and are ready to deploy to your first pre-production environment or test group of users. He elaborates on what that looks like and what tool to use.

[24:31] Daniel continues to explain what the package does once it is in App Center and what the chain of pre-production environments look like.

[25:16] When users get the latest version of your app, is that going through the Microsoft store? What will automated updates look like in the future?

[26:31] So will App Center feature be a full-on replacement for ClickOnce? And what is it called?

[29:46] Is the Microsoft business store 'a thing?'

[30:17] Does App Center have an integration with the Microsoft store?

[30:38] What does the process look like to actually 'go to production?'

[32:19] Are Xamarin, operational telemetry, crash reports, etc. all wired into App Center?

[33:36] Looking forward, what is Daniel's vision for the future?

[35:11] Daniel highlights some valuable resources for listeners that want to learn more!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

Microsoft Ignite 2019

Party with Palermo - Microsoft Ignite Conference 2019 (Eventbrite)

Special pre-release offer that expires Nov. 2nd: email Jeffrey at Jeffrey@Clear-Measure.com and tell him who his very first guest on the podcast was then he'll send you a free e-book copy!

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Pre-order on Amazon here!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure e-book!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events!

Jeffrey's .NET DevOps Bootcamp (Oct. 28-30th, in Lakeway, TX)

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

Daniel Jacobson's Twitter: @PMatmic

URL-Based Windows Installer

Xamarin

DevBlogs.Microsoft.com/VisualStudio

DevBlogs.Microsoft.com/DotNet

Aka.ms/MSIX

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Download this episode (MP3, 37:03, 35.6 MB)

Watch this episode on YouTube

This episode on the AI DevOps Podcast site

Jeffrey Palermo 3:00 am on October 14, 2019

Glenn Condron on New Capabilities in .NET - Episode 58

This week on the podcast, Jeffrey is speaking with Glenn Condron! Glenn is the Program Management Lead of the App Platform team within the Developer Division at Microsoft, focusing on .NET.

With .NET Conf 2019 just recently wrapped up, Glenn will be highlighting some of the new capabilities within .NET! Glenn was a part of the keynote, where he gave some really interesting demos showing the new stuff coming out for .NET. Having seen the keynote himself, Jeffrey knew that his listeners had to know all about it for themselves too! So, in this episode, Glenn speaks about what he showcased at the conference, explains how he ran his .NET Core 3 demo, how gRPC is changing the game, and shares his current personal preference for running the .NET Core application in a container.

Jeffrey and Glenn cover a lot of ground regarding .NET, so be sure to tune in!

Topics of Discussion:

[:40] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes!

[:48] Jeffrey gives some announcements and lets you know where to get a hold of his book, .NET DevOps for Azure.

[2:24] About today's guest, Glenn Condron.

[2:42] Jeffrey welcomes Glenn to the show!

[2:48] Glenn shares what he spoke about during the 2019 .NET Conf keynote.

[3:46] Glenn speaks about what his career journey has been like and what he's currently doing in his role at Microsoft.

[5:14] How gRPC is changing the game when it comes to blocking synchronous calls.

[7:44] What does gRPC stand for?

[8:23] Glenn explains his philosophy and the thinking behind making the backend without giving the URL to the calling application, and instead, publishing a library that their calling application consumed so that their service owned its own protocol (instead of locking in the client to that over-the-wire protocol).

[14:42] Glenn provides his take on whether anything that is a step higher in compatibility (i.e. allows for a greater reach of clients who can use it), tends to include extra steps and a decrease in productivity.

[17:30] Glenn speaks about how he ran his .NET Core 3 demo (at the 2019 .NET Conf) in a Linux container and some of the interesting and impressive pieces of it.

[20:23] A word from the Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[20:49] Glenn explains what it is running as in Azure.

[21:00] Glenn speaks about the networking, and what he configured in the network to get it to be in front.

[26:28] Was the Blazor app deployed to the same Kubernetes cluster?

[26:58] Glenn explains how to set up .NET with the Blazor app.

[28:06] Glenn gives a loving criticism of Javascript and his part with helping .NET developers be better with the existing ecosystems.

[33:06] Out of all the options for being able to run your .NET Core application in a container, which is Glenn's personal preference? Which does he think should be the norm?

[40:35] Where to learn more about Glenn's presentation at .NET Conf and follow him online.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Pre-order on Amazon here!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsproject

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events!

Jeffrey's .NET DevOps Bootcamp (Oct. 28-30th, in Lakeway, TX)

Microsoft Ignite 2019

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

Glenn Condron's LinkedIn
Glenn Condron's Twitter

.NET Conf 2019 Recordings on Channel 9

github.com/dotnet-presentations

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Download this episode (MP3, 42:42, 41.0 MB)

Watch this episode on YouTube

This episode on the AI DevOps Podcast site

Jeffrey Palermo 3:00 am on October 7, 2019

Craig Loewen on the Windows Subsystem for Linux DevOps Story - Episode 57

On this week's episode, Jeffrey is joined by Craig Loewen to discuss the Windows Subsystem for Linux! Craig is a Program Manager on the Windows Subsystem for Linux team. He started his journey in University by studying as a Mechatronics Engineer. Really loving all things software, Craig worked at several different companies, but eventually found his way to Microsoft as an intern. Not long after, he got hired on full-time! He's been with the WLS team now for about a year.

Today, Jeffrey and Craig Loewen discuss the ins and outs of WLS. They talk about how the codebase for WSL is organized, what it actually looks like to build WSL, some of the exciting highlights and changes to version 2 of WSL, Craig's plans for the UI in WSL 2, and much, much more! Tune in to get the full scoop!

Topics of Discussion:

[:45] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes!

[:52] Jeffrey gives some announcements and lets you know where to get a hold of his book, .NET DevOps for Azure.

[3:47] About today's guest, Craig Loewen.

[3:55] Jeffrey welcomes Craig to the show!

[4:12] How did Craig end up in his current role and what has his journey been like at Microsoft and prior to Microsoft?

[4:58] Craig gives a quick overview for listeners who have never used the Windows Subsystem for Linux.

[7:18] Where is the codebase for WSL organized?

[7:53] Is it one massive Git repository or is it a series of repositories?

[8:30] What language/s is it written in?

[8:44] Is it a visual studio solution?

[9:28] What does it mean to build WSL? What does it look like to actually change some code and produce a new version of the build that could be tried out by somebody?

[10:26] What are some of the key meaningful things that they have to have in their part of the build?

[12:16] Craig highlights some of the exciting changes in version 2 of WSL.

[14:46] Does running on a virtual machine open up some additional capabilities?

[15:22] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[15:50] Is it an overstatement to say that when version 2 of WSL comes out, and you're running Windows 10, you'd be running Windows and Linux?

[18:00] What is WSL's build server?

[18:55] How often is WSL running this massive build?

[19:43] What goes into Craig's private build script?

[20:37] When Craig says 'run it on my box,' what does that entail?

[21:00] Craig speaks about the automatic testing they have for the subsystem.

[22:39] Is it a manual process or automated integration when they pull external issues from their GitHub into Azure DevOps?

[23:37] How do they get information, telemetry, and logs about how WSL is going out there in the wild?

[24:40] Does Craig know how many people are actively using WSL out in the world?

[25:14] Jeffrey and Craig speak more about how WSL version 2 is going completely VM-based and what that means.

[27:32] If WSL 2 is going to go to Windows server, does that mean that in Azure when someone spins up a Windows server and they want to put multiple low-volume applications on a particular VM that want to target either Linux or Windows that it doesn't matter because both kernels are native?

[29:36] What are Craig's plans for the UI for WSL 2?

[30:55] Craig's recommendations for those who want to learn more!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure, by Jeffrey Palermo

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsproject

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events!

Jeffrey's .NET DevOps Bootcamp (Oct. 28-30th, in Lakeway, TX)

Microsoft Ignite 2019

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!