June | 2021 | Programming with Palermo

Jeffrey Palermo 3:00 am on June 28, 2021

Laurent Bugnion on Native Client Development - Episode 147

This week, Jeffrey is joined by a longtime friend of his, Laurent Bugnion. Laurent is a Senior Cloud Developer Advocate at Microsoft working with Azure in the Developer Relations team.

Prior to joining Microsoft, Laurent was a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional for Windows development from 2007 to 2017, a Microsoft Regional Director from 2013-2017, and a Xamarin Most Valuable Professional in 2015. He is one of the foremost experts for XAML and C# based development and codes in Windows, WPF, Xamarin (iOS and Android), Unity, ASP.NET. In his free time, he writes for technical publications such as MSDN Magazine and speaks at conferences such as Microsoft MIX, TechEd, VSLive, and more.

In their conversation, Laurent discusses Native client development in the Cloud and all of the interesting things he has been doing as a Cloud Advocate working with Azure.

Topics of Discussion:

[:14] About The Azure DevOps Podcast, Clear Measure, the new podcast Architect Tips, and Jeffrey's offer to speak at virtual user groups.

[1:25] About today's episode with Laurent Bugnion!

[2:05] Jeffrey welcomes Laurent Bugnion to the podcast.

[2:22] Laurent introduces himself and gives a rundown of his career thus far.

[8:42] Laurent shares how he thinks about client development and why it is so great.

[15:51] As someone who is on one of the Azure-related teams on Microsoft, what's Laurent's vision for native client development in, for, or with the Cloud?

[20:58] Discussing the issue of software authentication.

[23:00] How client application development has become easier.

[24:20] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[24:52] Strategies that are crucial to client development.

[33:38] Discussing developer education, working remotely and inclusion.

[36:30] MAUI vs. Blazor. How Laurent sees the current landscape and how he recommends making a decision between the current options available.

[40:30] Jeffrey thanks Laurent for his insight and for joining the podcast.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Architect Tips — New video podcast!

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook!

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

The Azure DevOps Podcast's Twitter: @AzureDevOpsShow

Laurent's Blog: GalaSoft

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Download this episode (MP3, 41:29, 39.8 MB)

Watch this episode on YouTube

This episode on the AI DevOps Podcast site

Jeffrey Palermo 3:00 am on June 21, 2021

Charlie Kindel on Terminal.Gui - Episode 146

This week, Jeffrey is joined by Charlie Kindel! Charlie is an American tech executive doing consulting and advising. Formerly, he has held roles with Control4, Amazon, and Microsoft. Much of his career has been spent focused on smart home products. Additionally, he is also the maintainer of Terminal Gui, which is a .NET 5 UI framework for console applications.

In this conversation, Charlie discusses the Terminal Gui and highlights some of the cases where it shines. If you're looking for a full user interface but you only want it to sip — rather than sap — system resources, the Terminal Gui may be the solution you're looking for! It's fun from a retro perspective as it allows people to go and explore the way UIs were back in the 80s and before.

Charlie shares how the Terminal Gui project got started, its current capabilities, the notable applications that use Terminal Gui, its constraints, dependencies, memory usage, potential future integration, and more! Don't miss out on learning about this lightweight UI framework.

Topics of Discussion:

[:14] About The Azure DevOps Podcast, Clear Measure, the new podcast Architect Tips, and Jeffrey's offer to speak at virtual user groups.

[1:24] About today's episode with Charlie Kindel

[1:48] Jeffrey welcomes Charlie Kindel to the podcast!

[2:04] Charlie shares some of his notable career highlights.

[4:28] What Jeffrey finds fascinating about Terminal Gui with modern .NET 5.0 applications.

[5:55] How the Terminal Gui project got started and its capabilities.

[7:35] Jeffrey highlights how lightweight Terminal Gui is.

[8:22] Are there any notable applications that use Terminal Gui right now? What is one of Charlie's favorites?

[10:09] What does the control model for Terminal Gui look like for those who want to create a composite control or a new type of control?

[12:11] Are there any limitations besides the layout? What types of controls can be made with Terminal Gui?

[13:46] What are the constraints with Terminal Gui?

[15:46] Is it expected to use a form base model similar to WinForms or WPF? Or more like model-view-controller where you split up the behavior and the layout? What's the intended approach?

[16:56] If someone is going to adopt Terminal Gui and use it for a particular command line EXE, what is the testing story (so that they know if the user interface is behaving properly)?

[17:50] If someone is going to be using Terminal Gui in their build, tests, and deployments, do they need to be aware of any dependencies (besides the library itself)?

[18:27] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[18:58] What do the tests look like in Terminal Gui? What should developers be looking at if they want to write tests?

[20:25] With Terminal Gui, would you deploy as a regular .NET 5.0 assembly? Would most of the time you roll up all the libraries and do a single executable deployment?

[20:51] What are some of the future visions for Terminal Gui?

[22:15] Why you would want to use Terminal Gui if you already use WPF, Xamarin, MAUI, etc.

[23:19] Jeffrey shares one of his first experiences with using Terminal Gui and why he likes it.

[24:09] Has Terminal Gui been tested with really old Windows or constrained hardware?

[24:33] Are there any reports on the footprint of startup memory usage?

[25:03] Jeffrey and Charlie discuss memory measurements.

[26:51] Is tab ordering built into Terminal Gui?

[28:08] Charlie discusses the potential of future integration with MAUI.

[29:19] Charlie shouts out the other contributors on the Terminal Gui project.

[30:24] Where and how to check out Terminal Gui.

[30:50] How to start contributing to the project.

[31:17] Jeffrey thanks Charlie Kindel for joining the podcast!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Architect Tips — New video podcast!

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook!

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

The Azure DevOps Podcast's Twitter: @AzureDevOpsShow

Terminal Gui source code

Microsoft PowerShell Graphical Tools

Out-ConsoleGridView (OCG)

Miguel de Icaza's 2019 blog post on Terminal Gui

Presentation from .NET Conf 2018

Video recording of Terminal Gui

Xamarin.Forms with console UI adapter

Selenium

Xamarin

MAUI

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Download this episode (MP3, 34:36, 33.2 MB)

Watch this episode on YouTube

This episode on the AI DevOps Podcast site

Jeffrey Palermo 3:00 am on June 14, 2021

Data DevOps with the SQL Team - Episode 145

This week on the show, Jeffrey Palermo is joined by two special guests, Arvind Shyamsundar and Drew Skwiers-Koballa!

Arvind Shyamsundar is a Principal Program Manager on the Azure SQL DB Product Management team at Microsoft. He works to enable customers, partners, and colleagues to excel at what they do best by harnessing the power of data, advanced analytics, and cloud services. Arvind has worked at Microsoft for the last 18 years and was previously a part of the AzureCAT/DataCAT/SQLCAT group within Azure, and prior to that, a Principal PPE with Microsoft Services.

Drew Skwiers-Koballa is a Senior Program Manager on the SQL Tools and Experience team at Microsoft. In his role, he is focused on database development experiences and tools for Azure SQL/SQL Server. Previously to working with Microsoft, Drew was the Director of Information Technology at Inside Edge Commercial Interior Services.

In this episode, Drew and Arvind discuss data DevOps and how to run your SQL server database. Every system always has a SQL server database and there has been a lot of conversations over the years around the proper way to deploy a database, modify a database schema, monitor a database, etc. Drew and Arvind break down the current state-of-the-art technology and methods for running and deploying a SQL server database, the current tooling available around migration, strategies for Azure Data Studio, monitoring and telemetry flavors, and what to be on the lookout for as a developer looking forward in this landscape.

Topics of Discussion:

[:14] About The Azure DevOps Podcast, Clear Measure, the new podcast Architect Tips, and Jeffrey's offer to speak at virtual user groups.

[1:26] About today's episode with special guests, Arvind Shyamsundar and Drew Skwiers-Koballa.

[1:45] Jeffrey welcomes Arvind and Drew to the podcast!

[1:49] Arvind shares about the work that they do on the Azure SQL DB Product Management team and the previous roles he has held within Microsoft.

[4:11] Drew shares about the SQL Tools and Experience team and how their focus is different from the Azure SQL DB Product Management team.

[5:06] Arvind speaks about the current state-of-the-art technology and methods for running and deploying a SQL server database.

[8:28] Drew shares his insights on the specifics around the tooling and the options that are available.

[10:52] Beyond the DACPAC, is there another tool that is aligned with the migration approach?

[11:59] From Microsoft's tooling, what is the strategy? Is it to not provide a migrations-based approach or is there one in the works? From the highest strategy level, what conversations are happening within the SQL Tools and Experience team?

[13:42] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[14:13] If someone uses DbUp, do they still use a Visual Studio database project? Or is that an 'either or' decision?

[18:37] What the landscape looks like right now for tooling around managing your SQL server database.

[21:21] What is the strategy around 'Azure Data Studio?' Is it geared towards every storage service in Azure?

[23:09] Monitoring and telemetry: the current flavors that developers should know about and how to decide how to run your SQL server database.

[29:30] What is currently coming out from a tools perspective that developers should be on the lookout for.

[30:35] Go-to resources that Arvind and Drew recommend listeners check out.

[32:40] Jeffrey thanks Arvind and Drew for joining the podcast!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Architect Tips — New video podcast!

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook!

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

The Azure DevOps Podcast's Twitter: @AzureDevOpsShow

Arvind Shyamsundar's LinkedIn

Drew Skwiers-Koballa's LinkedIn

DbUp

Azure Data Studio

Redgate SQL Source Control

Redgate Database Migrations

Azure SQL Database Hyperscale

Cosmos DB

Microsoft Learn

Azure SQL Fundamentals | Docs.Microsoft.com

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Download this episode (MP3, 33:34, 32.2 MB)

Watch this episode on YouTube

This episode on the AI DevOps Podcast site

Jeffrey Palermo 3:00 am on June 7, 2021

Real-World DevOps on the MAUI Team - Episode 144

On today's episode of the podcast, Jeffrey Palermo is joined by two special guests, Alex Blount and Sweekriti Satpathy.

Alex is a Principal Software Engineer Manager on the Customer Engagement Team for the Microsoft Developer Edition, and Sweekriti is a Senior Software Engineer on the same team.

In their conversation, Alex and Sweekriti discuss real-world DevOps on the MAUI team, how to get up and running with MAUI, a rundown of the products that the team uses (and how they're configured), and much more.

Topics of Discussion:

[:14] About The Azure DevOps Podcast, Clear Measure, the new podcast Architect Tips, and Jeffrey's offer to speak at virtual user groups.

[1:26] About today's episode.

[1:46] Jeffrey welcomes Sweekriti Satpathy and Alex Blount to the podcast.

[1:54] Alex shares about his career journey and current role with Microsoft.

[3:48] Sweekriti shares about her career journey and current role within Microsoft.

[5:16] About Sweekriti's Learn TV show, Hello World.

[5:42] Alex provides some backstory on what their team does.

[9:22] Sweekriti shares her insights on migrating to .NET MAUI.

[9:58] What do level three tests look like? Tests that have to take the user interface into account? What libraries and techniques are the teams using now to handle that?

[13:23] Sweekriti's insights around UI testing from a DevOps pipeline point of view.

[18:14] Is this UI test library that Sweekiri spoke about a NuGet library? And what layer does it operate at? Is it on top of the emulator or does it not even need to spin up an emulator?

[19:23] Alex highlights a common pitfall they often see customers fall into with regards to testing, and how to address it.

[21:28] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[21:59] A lot of developers use the technique of taking a screenshot for every action in the user interface (in Azure Pipelines, testing in Selenium, etc.) Is this natively built into App Center?

[23:44] For the release candidate of a MAUI app, what format does it take? And where's the right place to archive those?

[28:05] Sweekriti shares an important aspect of how these tasks work.

[29:20] Are there any pipeline configurations that are in repositories that can be looked at today? Sweekriti offers some advice on how to get your environment up and running with MAUI.

[32:05] Alex shares his insights on telemetry.

[34:24] Sweekriti's insights on telemetry.

[35:00] As far as product strategy, is Microsoft aligning App Service for mobile telemetry and application insights to serverside telemetry?

[26:45] Skeekriti shares her excitements around .NET MAUI and everything becoming more streamlined.

[37:16] Is anyone writing an early release book on .NET MAUI development?

[37:59] Where to find resources related to .NET MAUI.

[40:22] Jeffrey thanks Sweekriti and Alex for joining the podcast and sharing their insights.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Architect Tips — New video podcast!

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!